Jesus and The Old Testament

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I’m having some kind of “frustrating time” with my Muslim friends in Facebook.

Discussing the Koran and pointing that Mohammad few times ordered killing as a solution, the Muslims answer back with quotes from the Old Testament in the Bible.

Let’s get clear about the Old Testament and Jesus.
Even Christians have problem with the Old Testament when it sneaks between them and Jesus.

For The Christianity the Old Testament is not a Book to follow.
It is in the Bible as a proof for Jesus’ coming and as a root of the faith in God.

When I say this to my Muslim friends they answer with Jesus’ words:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Jesus is right, he came to fulfill the prophesy and the Law of God who said to Jeremiah:

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

So, Jesus came to fulfill the prophesy, not to destroy it.
He came to fulfill the Law of God by signing the New Covenant.
Having new one we abolish the old.
And it couldn’t be other way, because Jesus clearly broke the rules of the Old Law: He did not obey the Sabbath and cured people in that day, He did not obey the law “eye for an eye” and gave new order “love your enemy”, He put the man before the gifts for the altar, He divided the earthy rules from the rules of God by saying:

Mat 22:20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
Mat 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.

Do you think that The One who was hated for braking the old rules will say “follow the old rules”?

If we still follow the Old Testament with all its rules, why Jesus came?
Do you really think that He came to say something which was known from hundreds of years?
Did they put Him on the cross because He agreed with them and because He was following their rules!?

I am surprised that Jesus’ clear message can be missed and interpreted in such a wrong way?

16 COMMENTS

  1. I’d like to thank you for this blog my friend. Simply for the fact that as of late I had come to the reckoning that perhaps Muhammad was the Anti-Christ. As Jesus came to teach tolerance, Mohammad (as far as I could see from Muslim action) I believed had come to teach the ethics of religion, but spoke of harming those who opposed the beliefs they upheld.

    In a sense, I can understand the reasoning behind this, because every individual has their own path bequeathed to them via circumstance and culture, thus it is unnecessary to attempt to deflect a mans life path if he himself is content with it, and is a balanced individual. I do not say “good” man, for the simple fact that good and bad are very relative terms to perspective, and many people, as stated before, have certain perspectives imposed on them through circumstance that does not allow them to have the same views on every issue as another individual. It is then, in my view, necessary to have tolerance for another man’s beliefs when in debate. As I stated, being balanced is the idea, and in a debate one should not aim to “win” but to draw. I would much rather find compatibility in a middle ground between my views and another mans, then completely change who they are; for the Lord made him as he is for a reason. πŸ™‚

    It is difficult to walk the middle path, but it is the goal.

    http://tow.charityfocus.org/?tid=542(This link is provided on my page, so you may have seen it, but anyone else who reads this may happen upon it as well.)

  2. The world is perfectly set in our favor.
    Any strive including balancing yourself is taking you into disbalance.
    Try to be impartial but don’t try it too hard πŸ˜€

  3. Without a doubt … the old testament is the new testament CONCEALED and the new testament is the old testament REVEALED. You cant argue the facts .. its clear as day if ppl actually take time to look over both and compare them ..

    JMHO

  4. Kaden_of_rok, it is true that reading the Prophets from the Old Testament(OT) you can find all of Jesus’ teachings.
    But reading Jesus’ words you can not find the rules from the Old Testament.

    Following Jesus, one can not brake moral and social values from the OT.
    But following the OT you can brake the teaching of Jesus.

  5. truden … its kinda true yes … all the old testament POINTS to and suggests the coming of jesus .. it makes it very clear what to expect .. and yes there is alot of other stuff .. but its very clear about how .. and when jesus was gonna come.

    Jesus didnt need to say the rules of hte old testament … by following him .. the rules SHOULD come naturally .. and really its not about the “rules” … casue jesus said over and over how the pharises are Hypocrytes .. and we are to do as they say .. but not to do as they do. We are sinners .. and everyone is a sinner .. even christians are sinners .. but we are forgiven becasue jesus sacrificed himself for our sins .. the details of hte bible are truely trivial and insignifigant when the focus should be on HIM .. and not on the tiny details that divide churchs up. Every person on earth has committed at least 1 of the 10 commandments … even believers .. so its almost impossible to keep the law. (hence why jesus dies for us casue no one was good enough in gods eyes for anyone to come to heaven. It was gonna be a lonely place for god so he sent jesus to pay for our sins)

    We are saved by GRACE and not by works … for if it was by works .. then jesus would be lieing when he said

    JOHN 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

    28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall NEVER PERISH, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

    So i dont think by following the old testament you can break the moral teachings of jesus … the old testament is (to me) a resource to PROVE who jesus is .. and that jesus paid for our sins of the past … future .. and present. And all he asks of us is to love god .. and to love our neighbour … the rest follows suit. Oh and to ask forgivness for sins on a daily basis to keep the slate clean. THis does not mean you can intentionally sin on a constant basis .. we must prove to god that we are making efforts to stop the sins we harbour .. but asking forgivness for them keeps our slate clean til we mess up again. (at least thats how i see it at this point)

    Dunno if that answered you or not .. or if it was too much info … i can talk about this stuff forever lol

  6. Dunno if that answered you or not ..

    We are talking here.
    The answer (if there is one) will come naturally πŸ˜‰

    The place in the Bible where Jesus said that people should do what pharisees say, not what they do, is used as a criticisms to the pharisees not as obligatory rule for the listeners.

    You said:

    So i dont think by following the old testament you can break the moral teachings of jesus

    And Jesus said:

    Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
    Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

    So, it is very clear that following the Old Testament you can brake Jesus’ teaching.

    Of course this is not single example.
    You can find many more in the New Testament.

  7. Oh, forgot to comment your: “We are saved by GRACE and not by works”

    It is very misty church explanation that one should accept Jesus as Lord and he/she is saved.

    That is lie, my friend.
    Jesus said that many will call Him Lord, but only few will pass through the narrow gate of the Kingdom.

    It is true that we are not saved by deeds.
    If you want to kill but you don’t do it because of the law, you are still killer and not worthy of The Kingdom of God.

    So, you will not be saved by what you do or didn’t do, but by what is in your heart.

    Again: the rules are for the criminals, and they don’t go to the heaven because they obey them. The desire to kill or sin is what makes man a criminal.
    The law is only preventing the crime by not letting the criminals fulfill their desires.

    Also, giving charity not because of good heart and will but because of the rule and the good image is not good deed.

    The goodness is not in the hand but in the heart.

  8. ok … well .. i see your point in that regard lol .. but when jesus says this: Matthew 5:17:

    17″Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

    Is that not saying that the old testament is still correct in its ways to SOME degree?? Dont get me wrong tho .. im all totally for jesus and his teachings .. alot of which jesus taught went against the OT … but did it?

    If everyone could just love god and their neighbour .. there would be no need for any of the other laws .. other than to outline what should have already come naturally casue of the love ppl would have for eachother and for god/jesus.

    p.s. im still a fairly new christian so it may seem i talk in circles sometimes lol. I could talk more about prophecy than any other subject in regards to the bible since thats where i started when i began my faith. The biblical details that seperate denominations are purely TRIVIAL in my opinion .. if hte focus was on jesus and god … and loving your neighbour as your self .. and telling others the great news of hte gospel .. the rest dont matter… well .. .except unfulfilled prophecies lol

  9. Well, this article is all about Matthew 5:17

    Jesus did fulfill the law, because one of the points in the law is:

    Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

    (read the article again)

    So, if God said “I’ll change the Law” then THIS IS THE LAW.

    Jesus fulfilled the law by signing the New Covenant.
    The Old Covenant is abolished by the Law, not by Jesus.

    Do you get it, my friend πŸ™‚

  10. Well … here is a list of stuff that shows we are saved by grace according to the WORD.

    ACTS
    8God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

    Ephesians
    8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faithÒ€”and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of GodÒ€” 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

    I believe in jesus .. and i am sinful by nature so .. your telling me that by having sinful thoughts … for instance if i peered at a beautiful woman .. and im married .. and had a lustful thought .. that i am condemmed?? I dont think jesus would just let me go like that … especially if i took notice of my thoughts and asked forgivness right away. And .. I am a hunter IRL .. so .. by having thoughts and actions of killing animals would that fall under the category of killing?? i want to kill animals during hunting season all the time lol ..(for food that is me and my family eat what i kill)I play several games that involve killing other players .. i know in my heart im not really killing them .. im being competative in a game so does that make me a killer too??

    What i am getting at here is .. my thoughts are not always pure … nor are my actions .. i do know whats right and wrong so i tend to stick to whats right (most of hte time) So i would like to believe that i am saved when i ask for forgivness of my sins .. even tho i know im not worthy .. but i also look at it like this .. im a father myself … im very forgiving when it comes to my own children .. would god who loves us not be as forgiving as i am to my own child?

    p.s. rambling now lol … not really knowing where I am going with this .. but its rather interesting lol.

  11. yeah i understand … we dont sacrifice animals for our sins etc … cause of jesus dieing for our sins on the cross.. etc ..i dont know all the details casue im not fluent with my bible ..

    i just love jesus and god and the holy spirit … love my neighbour (or try to) and love my family and the rest of it i just wing it as it comes. And ask myself .. what would jesus do.

    *shrugs*

  12. God, who knows the heart

    So, God is judging by heart, not by deeds.

    Saved through faith.
    And what is faith?
    To say Jesus is God?
    To honor Him with your mouth and to sin against Him in your heart?

    How do you sin against Jesus?
    What ever you do to man you do it to Him.
    What ever is your attitude to man is your attitude to Him.

    You can see your sin and you regret it.
    And that is good, but when you say “I’m weak and I’ll always sin” then you are making an excuse not to have the faith. You are becoming one who is leaning on God’s mercy, not on your good heart.

    The faith of the killer is not different than your faith.

    Now, I don’t know you, my friend and I can not tell you something which can sound like judging πŸ˜€
    It is a long path.
    Your strive to clean your heart, your desires and your deeds is showing that you are following Jesus’ path.
    Don’t be shy to pray or meditate for His help.
    Do it more often and the results will come.
    Pray and meditate for the Gift.
    God will hear you.

    Love to you and your family, my friend πŸ™‚

  13. In response to Kaden and thinking about those thoughts that are sinful…

    When a man has a thought, it does not necessarily mean he is bound by that style of thinking, in his soul he knows what is right, and this is the place from which you have your relationship with God. That is, the soul. Your purest intentions I believe are the translation that God oversees.

    As per your hunting, this is the cycle of life. I could very well see the point of a man who did not want to kill an innocent creature; but I could equally understand a man who wanted to experience the pain and sacrifice which is undergone in order for his kin to survive.

    I enjoyed the conversations between the two of you, they were enlightening. πŸ™‚

  14. Im not shy truden … I pray all the time and thanks for the kind thoughts to my family. πŸ™‚

    I dont see that by saying im always a sinner is an excuse to continue sinning .. I just KNOW that every man and woman is a sinner .. no matter HOW hard they try … technically no one is ever gonna be good enough to get to heaven .. i dont know a single person on this planet that has kept the 10 commandments … i bet you dont either. The only person in ALLLLL of man kinds history who is blameless is Jesus .. casue if we didnt sin … and continue to sin and seek forgivness .. then there was no need for jesus to even come in the first place. Cause i then believe at that point mankind would have defeated satan themselves without the help of god and the sacrifice of jesus (and ultimately adam and eve would not have eaten the fruit of knowledge of good and evil) .. casue he would no longer have a hold on us or control any part of our lives .. which in turn would have brought on the rapture long ago and we would all be standing in heaven now .. with eternal life.

    Good conversation πŸ™‚

    God bless

  15. Nice conversation indeed πŸ™‚

    Kaden, the world is motion.
    What is now is not what was few minutes ago.
    You are not the one from yesterday.
    “I was sinner” is not “I am sinner”.

    Yes I was a sinner like no other person was.
    I overstep all the commandments except one – I did not kill. But in my anger, I’m afraid, I wanted to do it.

    The one that I am now is not the one who sinned.
    That applies to everyone.

    That’s why I say, when they sentence a killer to death they may kill a saint.

    When I talk to people they say that everything is so complicated.
    I say, no it is the simplest thing in the life.
    Just Love.

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