Jesus and The Old Testament

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I’m having some kind of “frustrating time” with my Muslim friends in Facebook.

Discussing the Koran and pointing that Mohammad few times ordered killing as a solution, the Muslims answer back with quotes from the Old Testament in the Bible.

Let’s get clear about the Old Testament and Jesus.
Even Christians have problem with the Old Testament when it sneaks between them and Jesus.

For The Christianity the Old Testament is not a Book to follow.
It is in the Bible as a proof for Jesus’ coming and as a root of the faith in God.

When I say this to my Muslim friends they answer with Jesus’ words:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Jesus is right, he came to fulfill the prophesy and the Law of God who said to Jeremiah:

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

So, Jesus came to fulfill the prophesy, not to destroy it.
He came to fulfill the Law of God by signing the New Covenant.
Having new one we abolish the old.
And it couldn’t be other way, because Jesus clearly broke the rules of the Old Law: He did not obey the Sabbath and cured people in that day, He did not obey the law “eye for an eye” and gave new order “love your enemy”, He put the man before the gifts for the altar, He divided the earthy rules from the rules of God by saying:

Mat 22:20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
Mat 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.

Do you think that The One who was hated for braking the old rules will say “follow the old rules”?

If we still follow the Old Testament with all its rules, why Jesus came?
Do you really think that He came to say something which was known from hundreds of years?
Did they put Him on the cross because He agreed with them and because He was following their rules!?

I am surprised that Jesus’ clear message can be missed and interpreted in such a wrong way?

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Tyrone
14 years ago

I’d like to thank you for this blog my friend. Simply for the fact that as of late I had come to the reckoning that perhaps Muhammad was the Anti-Christ. As Jesus came to teach tolerance, Mohammad (as far as I could see from Muslim action) I believed had come to teach the ethics of religion, but spoke of harming those who opposed the beliefs they upheld.

In a sense, I can understand the reasoning behind this, because every individual has their own path bequeathed to them via circumstance and culture, thus it is unnecessary to attempt to deflect a mans life path if he himself is content with it, and is a balanced individual. I do not say “good” man, for the simple fact that good and bad are very relative terms to perspective, and many people, as stated before, have certain perspectives imposed on them through circumstance that does not allow them to have the same views on every issue as another individual. It is then, in my view, necessary to have tolerance for another man’s beliefs when in debate. As I stated, being balanced is the idea, and in a debate one should not aim to “win” but to draw. I would much rather find compatibility in a middle ground between my views and another mans, then completely change who they are; for the Lord made him as he is for a reason. πŸ™‚

It is difficult to walk the middle path, but it is the goal.

http://tow.charityfocus.org/?tid=542(This link is provided on my page, so you may have seen it, but anyone else who reads this may happen upon it as well.)

Kaden_of_rok
Kaden_of_rok
14 years ago

Without a doubt … the old testament is the new testament CONCEALED and the new testament is the old testament REVEALED. You cant argue the facts .. its clear as day if ppl actually take time to look over both and compare them ..

JMHO

Kaden_of_rok
Kaden_of_rok
14 years ago

truden … its kinda true yes … all the old testament POINTS to and suggests the coming of jesus .. it makes it very clear what to expect .. and yes there is alot of other stuff .. but its very clear about how .. and when jesus was gonna come.

Jesus didnt need to say the rules of hte old testament … by following him .. the rules SHOULD come naturally .. and really its not about the “rules” … casue jesus said over and over how the pharises are Hypocrytes .. and we are to do as they say .. but not to do as they do. We are sinners .. and everyone is a sinner .. even christians are sinners .. but we are forgiven becasue jesus sacrificed himself for our sins .. the details of hte bible are truely trivial and insignifigant when the focus should be on HIM .. and not on the tiny details that divide churchs up. Every person on earth has committed at least 1 of the 10 commandments … even believers .. so its almost impossible to keep the law. (hence why jesus dies for us casue no one was good enough in gods eyes for anyone to come to heaven. It was gonna be a lonely place for god so he sent jesus to pay for our sins)

We are saved by GRACE and not by works … for if it was by works .. then jesus would be lieing when he said

JOHN 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall NEVER PERISH, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

So i dont think by following the old testament you can break the moral teachings of jesus … the old testament is (to me) a resource to PROVE who jesus is .. and that jesus paid for our sins of the past … future .. and present. And all he asks of us is to love god .. and to love our neighbour … the rest follows suit. Oh and to ask forgivness for sins on a daily basis to keep the slate clean. THis does not mean you can intentionally sin on a constant basis .. we must prove to god that we are making efforts to stop the sins we harbour .. but asking forgivness for them keeps our slate clean til we mess up again. (at least thats how i see it at this point)

Dunno if that answered you or not .. or if it was too much info … i can talk about this stuff forever lol

Kaden_of_rok
Kaden_of_rok
14 years ago

ok … well .. i see your point in that regard lol .. but when jesus says this: Matthew 5:17:

17″Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Is that not saying that the old testament is still correct in its ways to SOME degree?? Dont get me wrong tho .. im all totally for jesus and his teachings .. alot of which jesus taught went against the OT … but did it?

If everyone could just love god and their neighbour .. there would be no need for any of the other laws .. other than to outline what should have already come naturally casue of the love ppl would have for eachother and for god/jesus.

p.s. im still a fairly new christian so it may seem i talk in circles sometimes lol. I could talk more about prophecy than any other subject in regards to the bible since thats where i started when i began my faith. The biblical details that seperate denominations are purely TRIVIAL in my opinion .. if hte focus was on jesus and god … and loving your neighbour as your self .. and telling others the great news of hte gospel .. the rest dont matter… well .. .except unfulfilled prophecies lol

Kaden_of_rok
Kaden_of_rok
14 years ago

Well … here is a list of stuff that shows we are saved by grace according to the WORD.

ACTS
8God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Ephesians
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faithÒ€”and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of GodÒ€” 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

I believe in jesus .. and i am sinful by nature so .. your telling me that by having sinful thoughts … for instance if i peered at a beautiful woman .. and im married .. and had a lustful thought .. that i am condemmed?? I dont think jesus would just let me go like that … especially if i took notice of my thoughts and asked forgivness right away. And .. I am a hunter IRL .. so .. by having thoughts and actions of killing animals would that fall under the category of killing?? i want to kill animals during hunting season all the time lol ..(for food that is me and my family eat what i kill)I play several games that involve killing other players .. i know in my heart im not really killing them .. im being competative in a game so does that make me a killer too??

What i am getting at here is .. my thoughts are not always pure … nor are my actions .. i do know whats right and wrong so i tend to stick to whats right (most of hte time) So i would like to believe that i am saved when i ask for forgivness of my sins .. even tho i know im not worthy .. but i also look at it like this .. im a father myself … im very forgiving when it comes to my own children .. would god who loves us not be as forgiving as i am to my own child?

p.s. rambling now lol … not really knowing where I am going with this .. but its rather interesting lol.

Kaden_of_rok
Kaden_of_rok
14 years ago

yeah i understand … we dont sacrifice animals for our sins etc … cause of jesus dieing for our sins on the cross.. etc ..i dont know all the details casue im not fluent with my bible ..

i just love jesus and god and the holy spirit … love my neighbour (or try to) and love my family and the rest of it i just wing it as it comes. And ask myself .. what would jesus do.

*shrugs*

Tyrone
14 years ago

In response to Kaden and thinking about those thoughts that are sinful…

When a man has a thought, it does not necessarily mean he is bound by that style of thinking, in his soul he knows what is right, and this is the place from which you have your relationship with God. That is, the soul. Your purest intentions I believe are the translation that God oversees.

As per your hunting, this is the cycle of life. I could very well see the point of a man who did not want to kill an innocent creature; but I could equally understand a man who wanted to experience the pain and sacrifice which is undergone in order for his kin to survive.

I enjoyed the conversations between the two of you, they were enlightening. πŸ™‚

Kaden_of_rok
Kaden_of_rok
14 years ago

Im not shy truden … I pray all the time and thanks for the kind thoughts to my family. πŸ™‚

I dont see that by saying im always a sinner is an excuse to continue sinning .. I just KNOW that every man and woman is a sinner .. no matter HOW hard they try … technically no one is ever gonna be good enough to get to heaven .. i dont know a single person on this planet that has kept the 10 commandments … i bet you dont either. The only person in ALLLLL of man kinds history who is blameless is Jesus .. casue if we didnt sin … and continue to sin and seek forgivness .. then there was no need for jesus to even come in the first place. Cause i then believe at that point mankind would have defeated satan themselves without the help of god and the sacrifice of jesus (and ultimately adam and eve would not have eaten the fruit of knowledge of good and evil) .. casue he would no longer have a hold on us or control any part of our lives .. which in turn would have brought on the rapture long ago and we would all be standing in heaven now .. with eternal life.

Good conversation πŸ™‚

God bless

Tyrone
14 years ago

Love and Light.

^_^