Truden vs. Advaita

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More than one year ago I wrote a letter to Ramesh Balsekar – one of the leading Advaita’s upholders. I hoped that giving Balsekar a question, I’ll receive profound answer-explanation about the none duality.

Let me start this article with the question and the answer.

Truden vs. Advaita
or
The Birth of I Am

The question:

Advaita says that the world is an illusion of the Consciousness.
Which means that, if the Consciousness go back “in” itself, the illusion will disappear?
Then this HERE as an illusion, does not see the Consciousness, which is The True One.
But The Consciousness also does not see the illusion when is free of it.
Because to get rid of the Illusion, is not to see it.
The Enlightened one can see both of them.
Which one is The True One?
This HERE?
That THERE?
Or The Enlightened One, Who sees This HERE and That THERE?
The Self does not see it self. It sees the places where it dwells.
This HERE and That THERE are only places in which The Awaken Consciousness dwells.
My Understanding and feeling is that The Whole is “sleeping consciousness”.
The Awakened Understanding that appears in it, is the True Self.
There is as many Awakened Understandings for The True Self, as the number of Enlightened men that was in the Universe. And if we have to define what is God, then they are God(s).
They are many, yet They are One, for all of Them have the rest in Themselves.
The explanation about that, is what we should call Truth.

Love
Nikolay Sisoev-Truden

The answer:

Shirish Murthy
4/24/03
Ramesh Balsekar:
There is only one Source which can be called by many names ( Energy, God, The Absolute,Consciousness, etc). The One Unmanifest becomes the many in the phenomenal manifestation( which you call illusion). At some point in time, the phenomenal manifestation becomes the Unmanifest again. But at any moment, there is always only One ( One without a second ). And the only truth that you can be sure of at any time -stripped of all concepts- is “I am” or “I exist”. All else is conceptualization.

***

As you can see, the answer does not comment the points in my question.
Ramesh Balsekar clearly stripped the question, putting it together with all the conceptualizations, to give me the well known concept of Advaita – at any moment, there is always only One (One without a second). And the only truth that you can be sure of at any time -stripped of all concepts- is “I am” or “I exist”.

Well, let us weight Advaita concept against Truden Knowledge.

I agree.
Consciousness is all there is.
I accept that the matter is Consciousness too.
A Know it.

Why Truden Knowledge sees Matter as Consciousness?
Matter is motion.
Motion is mental appearance.
There is no motion without observing consciousness.
Motion is not even observation of the consciousness. It is Knowledge.
We would say that motion exists without being observed from a conscious creature, but it already exists as a notion through the consciousness.
Once it has been “observed” from the Consciousness, it has been laid in it as Knowledge, and doesn’t need to be observed in order to be existent.
(Motion exists as Knowledge trough the Consciousness.)

We don’t have to give examples about something that exists without seeing it, and even not knowing about it, and which is independent of our conscious knowledge.
All the examples will deal with our conscious understanding, and that is already existence of consciousness, which makes everything possible through conscious discussion.
(The above bolded sentence could be very deceiving, although it contains a big part of the Truth.)

…

Ramesh Balsekar, representing Advaita concept, says that “the only truth that you can be sure of at any time -stripped of all concepts – is “I am” or “I exist”.”

I agree one hundred per cent with that.
But how that “I exist” appeared?
Some of you will say: It is eternal and it does not have birth.

Wrong, my Friends!

Eternal is the essence of the Absolute, but the Knowledge of the Self has birth, and this is included in that essence.

Consciousness does not have Its Own Self, as long as It does not separate.
The separation needs at least “two”.
In One there is no Knowledge, because Knowledge is Separation. In the Separation The Many are born.
Knowledge is born in interrelations.
When a mind sees something, it separates it from its own self by putting that other thing as something that “I see”, “I hear”, “I taste”, “I smell” and “I feel” (five trees), which stays in the Self as “I Know”.
That “I Know” appears in the interrelations between the Self and the none-Self.

Consciousness does not see itself.
It sees the place of its existence, and by gaining Knowledge about things that are not “me”, Consciousness gives birth to “Myself”.

Here we come to the point that Consciousness becomes conscious about “I Am”, only after knowing, what I Am Not.

But if there is something that is not “I”, then it is not only One.
There must be at least Two…

Of course!
Knowing that “I Am” needs to interrelate with something, in order to know Itself, we have to assume that there is second thing in the One.

Well…, but it is ONLY One, and I have already agreed with that…

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Now take a look at yourself.
What are you?
Man. – You are One Man.
But what is man’s essence? – Body and soul (consciousness).
Which is the one that knows the Self? – The Consciousness (The Soul) in the Man.
So, Man is One, made of Two.

Leading you in this very simple path (for the Truth is Simplicity), I would like to show you the man-resembling essence of That.
It is the only Logical thing to be, for if It does not resemble to man, we will never Understand It, and we will never return in that Understanding which we call God (or whatever you call It).
Not resembling to man, God will be unreachable for us, which makes all the teachings about It, useless nonsense.

It is said that God is Eternal and Unchangeable.
But it is said about the Essence of the Absolute.
Here the confusion takes birth.
The Absolute is not God, because It Is as Existence, and It Is Not as Knowledge.
The Absolute is the “Place” where the Understanding about the Truth takes Birth.
That Understanding is which we must call God.
That Understanding is the Awakened Knowledge about the True essence of the Whole.
That Understanding is “I Am”, which “I Am” takes birth in the interrelations between the Consciousness and the Matter.

The Whole is One made out of Two – Rest (Consciousness) and Motion (Matter/Dream)
In the interrelations between these Two (that are One), “I Am” is born.
“I Am” Knows itself as The Whole, which Knowledge (Understanding) is:
I Am One made out of Two.
I Am sleeping Consciousness with Dream in it.
As a Sleeping Consciousness I was in my dream, and when I woke up, I saw that I Am Sleeping Consciousness with Dream in it – And I Am both these things.

It may look as a paradox that an awakened consciousness describes itself as a SLEEPING…
It is not a paradox.
When you describe yourself as a man, you say that you are body and consciousness (soul), but you, as a describer of the man, are the Understanding of the Self.
Having the consciousness as part of your nature, does not limit that Consciousness only to that Self explanation for that particular moment.
The Consciousness in you can give you some other knowledge about yourself in some later moment. Actually every moment of your life is a birth of a new Self.
That comes from the fact that every moment The Self interrelates with things that are not Itself, which fills up (“increases”) the Knowledge about The Self.
The same is for the Absolute – every moment in It, gives birth to One New Understanding (God)
We could also say that The Absolute wakes up many times, but doing that in different places in the dream it wakes up as a different Understanding about Itself.
These different Understandings are which the religions describe as Gods or Saints.
They are giving Life to the Absolute with the Awakened Understanding of I Am.

Many religions talk about the place of God.
As long as there is PLACE, there is motion.
Motion is not True.

Motion is that, which I Am Not, because I can see it, and I can feel it.
(May that not deceive you, for what you see and feel is (IN) you)
But if motion is not, I do not exist, because there is no other thing in which I “reflect” my Knowledge, which I actually Am.
All Knowledge dies if it is not shared; therefore my Life is to share myself.
But because there is nothing else, I share the Knowledge, which I Am, with the motion in me, which I Am Not.
That Interrelation (Sharing) is what makes Me “One Existent Essence”, made out of Two existent parts.

That Is All, my Friends.
Am I that difficult (truden)?

P.S. Brother Mine, when you read this, do not nail it to the board of your Knowledge.
Dilute it in the cup of your watery acceptance and drink the extracted meaning in Silence.
The Speech is the Motion which I Am Not, but in Speech is the Silent Wisdom, which I Am.
Yet, I Am Not without being both of them.

Dear Sucker, this is not milk!

With All Love, which I Am
Truden

8 COMMENTS

  1. Why the hell do you need to prove your self ? Why do you need to compare your self with others ! What is your knowledge? Is it truly yours? If I agree on your arguments how will it benifit you? Don’t waste your time in this all ! Go meditate, if you alreay are meditating, this all arguments, convinsing others, trying to prove your point&knowledge etc will yield nothing and will become obstacle in your progress.

    – your inner voice

  2. Well, at least I did try to say what I said in better manner than yours, my friend.
    To me it wasn’t arguing.
    To you it is…

    The things are like they are.
    We see them in different ways.
    Then we say what we see.
    And what you read here is what I see.

    Silence is good.
    You should learn it.

  3. You said in Better manner in what sense? In sense of knowledge or on the sense of humbleness?

    Well dear friend, if i tell you in simple words:

    Spirituality can be viewed in many ways. Which ever ways which ever person understands is the best explanation for him. Not you not me and not perticularly some one.

    GOD: a diamond with many sides with many colors. It all depends on which side u looking from.

    P.S. If i have to climb 7 steps, and after reaching to 3rd or 4th step if I engage my self in telling to those who has yet to start climbing about “how it feels like” or “how the world looks like from 4rth step”, I might probably comepletly forget that I have yet to go 3-4 more steps.

  4. 99% of humans knowledge and behavior is illogical.
    One comes to tell me that I shouldn’t say something, and I should go to meditate…!!!
    But why you come to say all this instead of staying in peace and meditating!?
    Not that I don’t like talking to people, but the talk must come out of some rational sense.
    Yet, I don’t mind chatting.
    After all, this is the purpose of my Weblog 😉

    Everything that you said in your second comment is right, but it sounds like a quote, not in the right place.

  5. Why I came here because I am a seeker.
    Reading your post I can figure out you must have experienced THAT if not continous may be in fregments ! otherwise no one can say in detail what you are saying.

    The only thing I didn’t like was your asking question to some one.
    If you have right knowledge then why create question and then when you get answer, again try to invalidate that? In this whole process don’t you think you are wasting time of yours and the one whom you asked question?

    What I will interesed in from you is just pure discussions and problems that are concered with serious seeker.

    Ofcourse you might have many things I can learn from.

    love and peace.

  6. Most of the people, my friend, don’t know what question to ask.
    Sometimes I have to give the question for my answer.

    You are a searcher, you say, and you came here for a conversation, which will give you eventually some knowledge.
    Well, one of the things that you can learn from my knowledge is the answer that I give you in this entry.
    You don’t like the way I gave my answer, therefore you don’t see the answer, but the words folded in your intonation and attitude.

    You must drop you burden if you want me to give you something mine.
    Otherwise you will crush under the weight.

    So, come empty and then I’ll try to give you something.
    By the way, what is your nationality?

  7. Do you think what you have is yours?
    First of all, what do you have?
    If you have some thing that means you are holding something.
    And if you are holding something, you are the one who is carying burdon not me!

    Any ways, my nationality is American.

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